Sparking Awe in the Next Generation: Catherine Barr Uses Picture Books & Storytelling to Reveal the Wonders of Nature

Welcome to what’s your why. I am your host, Emy Digrappa. What’s your why is brought to you by Wyoming humanities. In this podcast, we take you on a journey with nationally and internationally known renowned humanists, authors, journalists, philosophers, artists and more. We adventure into conversations about where they’ve been, what makes them tick and how their history relates to the greater world and to you.         

00:00:32

             

Get inspired, gain perspective and reflect on what’s your why. Today we are talking to Catherine Barr. Catherine is a children’s book author who works alongside experts to reveal the stories and extraordinary facts about the natural world. She is widely known for her environmental and animal based nonfiction books. Catherine Barr.         

00:00:58

             

Thank you so much. So we want to start with your journey because then that will lead us to down your road of inspiration. So how did you get started in writing children’s books? And was that always something that you had in your heart and mind? No, it wasn’t.         

00:01:14

             

I mean, I’ve always, I actually became a children’s author by mistake, which has turned out to be the greatest joy. But I’ve always been passionate about nature and environment and wildlife and I’ve always. I studied ecology and then I worked for Greenpeace for many years as a campaigner both in the UK and internationally, particularly on endangered species and sea turtles in particular, for which I have a huge love. And then I trained as a journalist and I worked for the Natural History Museum in London as an editor. And it became very obvious to me that I enjoyed words and writing.         

00:01:51

             

So I ended up, I started as an editor there, marking everything up in red, but ended up writing and researching exhibitions because I loved it and I loved doing the research and I loved using words to tell a story. So I began to write more and more there and then I did a lot of strategic communications for social and environmental organizations and then I became a mum. I’ve got two girls aged 21, 23, and we moved out of London when they were my first daughter, Hannah was one. And we moved to the country, to the Welsh borders in a little town called Hay-on-Wye, which is famous for its literary best, international literary festivals. And when they were at junior school, primary school, they came home one day talking about the story of life on earth and where all this incredible diversity in plants and animals had come from.         

00:02:46

             

And I was looking for a book about the science of that story, the incredible story of life on earth. And all I could find was very dry textbooks and no picture books. So in the end, a friend of mine, a biology teacher, and I decided to write the book that we wanted, so we did. So it was an amazing few months of meeting for coffee and talking about issues. He’s an environmental biologist, and I worked with Brian Rosen at the Nature History Museum as our expert consultant.         

00:03:19

             

So he examined every sentence that I wrote to make sure it was accurate, but bearing in mind it’s a picture book. And so we wrote the story, and then I submitted it to the Natural History Museum in London, and they said they’d love to publish. So they put me together with a publisher, and I’ve been working with that publisher as well as others ever since. And I think the story, the story of life, the first book on evolution, I think, has now sold about 80,000 copies around the world, which is amazing to me. And it launched my journey as a writer and an author, and I’ve absolutely loved it.         

00:03:56

             

And just kind of the ball keeps rolling, and I keep exploring those stories and more and more spending time in schools as well. Oh, that’s good. Well, what would you say is the target age for your books? Well, I’m always really reluctant to give a target age because my publishers are always asking for a target age, and I think I’m a great supporter of adults reading picture books. Officially, they’re aged between six and ten, I guess.         

00:04:29

             

But I’ve had loads of feedback from parents of four-year-olds saying they’ve loved the pictures. And you can, I’ve discovered that you can tell so much of the story through the illustrations, and that’s part of the journey of discovering how to create picture books. There are so few words, but there’s a lot you can say in the, in the illustrations. So that’s so for very young children. They can explore the pictures.         

00:04:53

             

But also, I learn so much when I write my picture books. I consult experts all around the world on different issues. So for me, it’s a journey of discovery, and I get lots of feedback from parents who’ve said, I learned this and I learned this and I found out this. So I think everybody should read picture books, whether you’re three or 90 or, in fact, 97, like my mom. So your mom reads your books?         

00:05:19

             

Oh, my God. She’s my biggest fan. Oh, well, of course. She is saying that’s what moms are, your biggest fan. So I think what is really interesting is that when you looked out there to find a book for your daughters, it just triggered you to say, there’s nothing here.         

00:05:44

             

I don’t want a textbook. I don’t want them to get caught up in all the mumbo jumbo of reading text and trying to understand that, then you’re explaining that to them, and that could be so frustrating. But you came up with a great solution. Yes, well, that’s the thing I really wanted to do, was write it as a story. That was really important to me.         

00:06:09

             

I’ve since discovered that’s called narrative nonfiction, which is what I enjoy most, is children being able to read nonfiction as a story, which, of course, it is a story. I mean, it’s an extraordinary, the most extraordinary stories of life on earth. And so writing in that kind of way is really important to me. And that’s what I do in all of my books, so that children can read the stories. And a lot of the feedback I get in schools, I visit a lot of schools in the UK, and also some globally as well, is that I’m always the first non fiction author they’ve had in the school to do interactive workshops and tell stories.         

00:06:52

             

And the children, and I think it really helps children perhaps, that struggle to read or haven’t been interested in a fiction story that actually they can read nonfiction. It doesn’t have to be something you just do in class story, which, of course, it is. And I love that. And I love kind of bringing that to schools. I always say, you know, I don’t dress up and I’m not funny, I’m not a character, because they’re so used to having characters, you know, clowns or from books, but.         

00:07:23

             

And they always kind of wonder what I’m going to do. But anyway, the kids love it. They love, they have so much curiosity, and it’s. I just love that aspect of being an author, which I had no idea about when I began to be an authorization. So when you’re developing your story for your picture book, what drives you to one subject or another?         

00:07:45

             

Is it because you hear from parents and teachers, we don’t have a really good picture book or story about this subject, or you just focus completely on the natural world. I focus on what I’m interested in, essentially, and the stories that I feel need to be told. And I think my stories are about conservation. They’re about endangered wildlife, they’re about ecosystems. They’re about evolution, climate change.         

00:08:15

             

What I like doing is telling the big picture, and it’s like the tip of an iceberg, you know, in a picture book, you can’t say very much, but you can ignite children’s interest in things. And that’s why sparking that curiosity is what I love. That’s what I love doing best. And it’s usually about issues that I’m in, interested in and I feel are important and fascinating for children to learn about. And the other thing is at the end of my book says, always a section, almost always a section about what you can do or how you can get involved or how you can participate, how you can take action.         

00:08:50

             

Which new questions can you ask so high? Hope sends them off on a journey of discovery and a sense of awe and curiosity about the natural world, which will then ignite their interest in helping to save it and care for it as they grow up. I love that. Well, tell me how you became interested in the wolves of Yellowstone because you were just here and we got to spend some time together. Thank you so much.         

00:09:18

             

What about the wolves of Yellowstone intrigued you so much? Well, I mean, I’ve been so grateful to be here. I’ve had the most extraordinary time, thanks to Wyoming humanities. I’m deeply grateful for that opportunity. So I just want to say that, first of all, I really, really am.         

00:09:37

             

It’s been an extraordinary journey. I first discovered the story about the rewilding of wolves in Yellowstone from watching a small. I watched a small film, a short five minute film narrated by a journalist in the UK called George Monbiot, about the story of what happened when the wolves were brought back and the unexpected burst of biodiversity and how the park changed in ways that nobody quite anticipated over time after their introduction. And I was fascinated by this because, again, it’s a big story. It’s about ecosystems, it’s about links between species.         

00:10:15

             

It’s about the reliance and dependence of different species. And that big picture is interesting to me, and I’m always looking for ways to tell that story in classrooms. And this is a. The story of the Yellowstone Wolves is much quoted around the world as being one of the best and most iconic stories of rewilding impact of that. So I was interested in exploring that and I took the film to my publishers, Bloomsbury, and showed them the film and said, I’d like to write the picture book that tells that story.         

00:10:52

             

And amazingly, it was one of the easiest commissions I’ve ever got because the incredible editor there just said yes. So it clearly is an extraordinary story. So that was my challenge, was to tell that story in a way that would engage children. And I’m so delighted that I’ve been able to bring it to Wyoming and amazingly, to visit Yellowstone myself in this last month, which has been mind blowingly exciting and wonderful, and particularly to meet Leo Lecky, who is the Woolf historian of Yellowstone and was my consultant, one of my consultants, my main consultant on the book, we worked together and he helped to make sure it was accurate, which is incredibly important to me in all of my books. So the opportunity to meet him, which Wyoming humanities facilitated, I’m deeply grateful for and I’ve learnt so much.         

00:11:51

             

It’s the beginning of a new journey and probably a new book. Good. I think it’s so interesting that you were able to write a book about wolves in Yellowstone and come to Wyoming and those are two places that you had never been before. And I think in any other time that could not happen, you know, because usually as an author you would be in place. Right.         

00:12:20

             

But because you have, you know, this amazing thing called the Internet and you can watch a film and you can communicate with people across the world, but still, what did you learn when you actually came to the place, when you actually came to Wyoming, when you actually visited Yellowstone, what was different and what did you learn? Well, it’s been. Yes, I mean, I totally agree. It’s extraordinary to be able to tell those stories and be able to have those communications around the world, and that’s the way I have to work in all of my books because I write global stories and I work with people in different places. So I spend a huge amount of time researching in many, many different ways and having lots and lots of conversations online and otherwise.         

00:13:11

             

But being here, yes, I mean, it’s added an incredible depth to my understanding both of the place and of the people and of the role of the native American people, indigenous people in the story and of the understanding of the way that the wolves fit into the landscape and how they, alongside the other animals, that the biodiversity story unravels in the book, but also the deep, deeply controversial issues around wolves, which are in so many ways so similar. I’ve recently been in Italy and talking to people in Italy about the coexistence alongside wolves in France and Italy and wider across Europe. And those international links are of great interest to me that make it so much of a global story. But talking to so many different people that I’ve had the opportunity to do in the last two weeks in Wyoming and seeing wolves in early dawn with Leo Lecky in the park and watching them through a scope and watching them in that landscape, it has been extraordinary and will stay with me forever and I think, inform. These are the kinds of stories I’m interested in telling and developing at a deeper level and perhaps even one day an adulthood book exploring these kinds of things as well.         

00:14:36

             

So who knows? But I’ve learned and I am learning so much from being here. It’s going to stay with me for a forever and a very long time. Well, that’s wonderful to hear. And I think that was probably, you know, so magical for you to be in Yellowstone and actually see the wolf.         

00:14:55

             

Really see a wolf. I mean, a lot of people have never seen a wolf, so that was truly a gift on your journey. And I’m sure it was just so wonderful. Well, yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I feel so privileged to have spent the time with Leo, who knows these wolves.         

00:15:13

             

He knows exactly. He knew the history and the story behind all the wolves that we were able to watch. And we saw twelve. On my first day in the park, we saw twelve wolves and playing together, loping and around and running and moving. And we were able to watch them for 2 hours or so.         

00:15:32

             

We watched them. It’s a long time and it was just extraordinary. And next to me, Leo was able to tell me the story of those wolves. We saw the oldest alpha female in the park. She’s eleven, which is an incredibly old wolf.         

00:15:44

             

Most of them only live to four or five within the park. And outside, shorter outside. But that was so interesting as well to hear those stories and then to talk about the relationship between the packs of the wolves. And everywhere we went, Leo was able to say which packs lived in which territories and how they overlapped and the issues of those, and the stories of those different packs of walls over time. So I got such a, so privileged to have such a deep level of shared knowledge that has obviously, of course opened lots of other questions and it just opens more doors of curiosity.         

00:16:27

             

But yes, it was lovely and amazing to see that and deeply emotional as well, as you say. Well, I’m thinking here, and I’m thinking about what you said. So wolf, a female wolf, wolf normally lives to be four or five. So what is the wolf’s known enemy besides man? Okay, let’s just take that right out of there.         

00:16:53

             

Well, most of, most of the. Leo was explaining that in the park there have been about just 120, about 100 wolves now within Yellowstone National Park for about the last decade. And that stayed fairly stable. And that’s because the biggest reason that wolves die within the park is fighting between packs, fighting for territories. And that the fact that the population within the park has stayed relatively stable over the last ten years illustrates the point that left to their own devices in the wider ecosystem, nature works out a balance and a way for animals to coexist.         

00:17:41

             

So yes, that’s how most the wolves die within the park is fighting between packs and territories. Super interesting. What is your next book, Catherine? Ah, well, my next. I have a few because I’m always working on about four books at once.         

00:18:04

             

They’re all. I like to multitask. They’re all at different stages. Some I’m, you know, writing, some I’m editing, some I’m looking at the illustrations. Some are just ideas in my head that are spinning and spinning.         

00:18:16

             

But the next one in this series, because the wolf book, it’s called 14 wolves in the UK, because it was about the first 14 wolves brought to Yellowstone. But in the US, they changed the name. It kickstarted a series of books with Bloomsbury called the Conservation series. The book after that was the book about tigers, called the tiger’s tale about a specific group of tigers in India. And the third in the series, called a Bear belongs, is coming out in April next year.         

00:18:46

             

And it’s about sun bears in Borneo, incredibly endangered species. They’re the smallest of the eight species of bears and it’s about three. It’s a true story about three little bears cubs that were rescued from the wildlife trade and how they were rehabilitated over a sort of four year period and then released back into the world, into a nature reserve in Borneo, working with an amazing man called Doctor Sue Wong in Borneo, who’s been extraordinary. So I can’t wait for that book to be released. It’s illustrated by Harriet Hobday.         

00:19:23

             

Her illustrations are beautiful. And the US, it’s been bought by the US, so a us edition will come out next year as well. So I’m delighted about that as well. So that’s one of the next stories that will be released next year? Yes.         

00:19:40

             

Excellent. I don’t know why, but I thought I was reading something that you were writing a book about climate change. Is that interesting? I’ve written a book about climate change. It’s called the Story of climate change.         

00:19:52

             

It’s in the first book I wrote, which is a story of life is the first in an ongoing series. I think it’s the longest series that. That publisher’s ever had, which I’m delighted about. And now I’ve written the story of. Story of.         

00:20:08

             

Started with story of life. Then there was story of space, story of people, story of inventions, story of climate change, which is selling in the US. In fact, I just visited the tattered covered bookshop in Denver yesterday and they said they’d sold out, so hopefully they’ll restock. And the story of climate change and the story of dinosaurs, which has just come out. And I also, yesterday just went to the Natural History Museum in Denver to read about teen Rex, which was a very exciting discovery around here.         

00:20:43

             

So that was very interesting to me as well, because I should be telling those stories in schools in the spring. So when teachers call you and invite you to come and present to their classroom, they choose the book that they want you to talk about. They kind of follow their own teaching, whatever the subject is, and invite you to come in and present. Yes, it usually works like that. I send them a list of ideas.         

00:21:14

             

I’m happy to talk about all of my books. And so I send them ideas of what a workshop about, for example, climate change or conservation or evolution or wolves or dinosaurs might involve. So they get an idea. It’s very interactive. The kids don’t just sit and listen, they get up, come to the front of the class, do colouring, do drawing, videos, do quizzes, you know, it’s.         

00:21:40

             

I’m very much getting the kids involved in stuff which engages their interests, so. But yes, the teachers can choose whatever they like. My books tend to, I mean, by coincidence, really, I mean, thank goodness, but align with the curriculum, which makes it easier to. For teachers to then work out how, rather, being an extra thing, it’s easier if they can fit it into. Into subjects they’re exploring anyway, in school.         

00:22:09

             

So. Yes, and I come armed with boxes and boxes of props, so that’s always fun as well. Oh, I’m sure, I’m sure it’s a joy that you get to be involved in the schools and interact with the kids and really learn what they’re taking away. Oh, yes. No, I mean, I hadn’t really thought about working in schools when I first started writing, but I quickly learnt that that was an opportunity to talk to the children who are reading my books, which, of course, is fascinating, to listen to their questions and see how they respond, what they want to know, what they’re interested in.         

00:22:51

             

And I think the best question I ever had was from a five year old who I’ve written a little book, a little series called ten reasons to love different animals, and I wrote a book about ten reasons to love a whale. And this little girl had obviously just had a sibling and I was explaining that whales were mammals and she asked me in a very serious voice how Wales breastfed, which was a wonderful question because, of course, I had a vague idea, but I certainly didn’t have a detailed idea. And we then did the research together in the class and there’s a high powered jet stream of very thick milk involved. But anyway, it was an amazing that kind of question is the sort of thing I love. It comes completely out of the blue, and you’re not expecting it.         

00:23:44

             

And if you don’t know the answer or don’t know the details of the answer, then you can sit with the class and find out together, and that’s part of the story. That is so exciting. It’s so exciting that you’re right there working with kids and, you know, presenting to them, and then they get this opportunity to ask you questions, and then there’s a question that you don’t have an answer to, but you get to. To look it up with them, you know, get online and find out all the stuff and talk about it together. That’s such a powerful way for kids to learn, is just being in that, that involved learning.         

00:24:24

             

They’re talking with you and having this rapport and even with each other and their teacher. I think all learning should be like that. No, it is really nice. One of the things I do with schools is that they work in a. Because what I’ve discovered about writing picture books that I like the best is working in a team with the scientists and the illustrators and the editors and publishers.         

00:24:47

             

You know, all of us create this book, and that collaborative effort is what is such fun and so enjoyable and interesting. And so, quite often in schools, I work with the teachers to, the kids produce a nonfiction book in a team. So they team up, and one of them, because one of them might like writing, one of them might like drawing, one of them might like researching. One of them might like editing, you know, different things. And they do the front cover and the blurb on the back.         

00:25:18

             

They would love the blurb on the back. That’s very popular. And then they do the research in the middle, and then they create. I kind of set them off on a journey, and then they create a little book. Five reasons to love a, you know, earthworm or whatever, football or.         

00:25:32

             

It doesn’t matter what it is. And they love it. You know, it’s such a. It’s such a. It’s such a great thing to do as a team.         

00:25:39

             

And then they present that book to the rest of the class or the school, and we have a winner who, you know, gets a free book or something. But that’s something I love doing in schools. Oh, my gosh. That. That is truly wonderful.         

00:25:55

             

And there’s been so much research done on how children learn, and it really is in the interactive way. And, you know, the idea that all kids are just sitting in a classroom and the teachers up there in the front just, you know, talk. Being talked at that. That whole thinking has just been so destructive for kids, and learning the way you’re doing it really opens their mind and opens a door for them. No, well, it’s fun.         

00:26:29

             

And, I mean, I love it. And what I love, you know, almost the best, is collecting the different props that I have, you know, that I can take into a class as soon as I start writing a book, think, oh, what can I. What can I. What can I take in? What can I, you know, and I’ve got tiny, my tiniest prop, which actually, I haven’t had the opportunity.         

00:26:48

             

I’m looking around for it to show here. I did bring a tiny little bag of props, my tiniest ones, but I’ve got a, you know, a tracker that I got from the British Antarctic survey that was on a storm petrel that, a geo tracker that’s tiny that was actually attached to a storm petrol for four years and flew around the world and they worked out, you know, where it had been and all that sort of thing, you know. And I’ve got a ping pong ball because I ordered 150 ping pong balls to tell the story of how many eggs are sea turtle lays. So I take those into a school and I’ve got bits of recycled. I’ve got some glass, not these, I’ve got some glasses that are made from recycled fishing nets.         

00:27:30

             

And I’ve got, you know, a tiny little hedgehog, actually, which I will take into a bookshop tomorrow where I’m talking about wildlife crossings and mentioning hedgehog, so I get the opportunity to show him off tomorrow. Oh, hedgehog. Oh, that’s what you were saying. Okay. I was telling you.         

00:27:47

             

What is she saying? Okay, we have, well, not so many of them in the UK. They’re endangered now. Oh, I didn’t know that. They are.         

00:27:56

             

They are. They’re so cute. And you have a little tiny one that you’re taking with you. Tiny one? Yes, I have a tiny one.         

00:28:05

             

So I’m going to take it into bookie’s bookshop in Denver tomorrow morning to show the children stories time. Oh, I love it. Well, it’s been so great visiting with you, Catherine. I think you’re doing such amazing and wonderful work and we must keep in touch. I’d love that.         

00:28:23

             

Thank you. Yes. And so you’re just a creative person, and now that I know about your daughter, who is also a creative, it just runs in your blood and you passed it on you. I love it. So we’ll keep in touch and.         

00:28:41

             

And you have to put me in touch with your daughter anyway because I want to communicate with her long distance. Of course. She’s delighted. She’s just after a very long journey. I bet they’re going to love hearing your Wyoming stories.         

00:28:54

             

Oh, I can’t wait to share them when I get home. I’ve got too many for everyone’s going to be falling asleep. I’ve got so many photographs and stories. Oh, well, just break it up into sessions. Another, another mom sessions session.         

00:29:09

             

Anyway, thank you so, so much for your time. Oh, thank you, Emmy. It’s been absolutely delightful. And thank you Wyoming humanities for having me. It’s been incredible.         

00:29:19

             

Absolutely.         

00:29:26

             

Thank you for joining us for this episode of what’s your why brought to you by Wyoming humanities with support for more Wyoming Humanities foundation and generous supporters like you. To learn more, go to thinkwide.org subscribe and never miss a show.